Moral responsibility.

by nicolaou in

no subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.

please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.

a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!

Sea Breeze

just put out your arm and scoop up the child.
But you don't. You watch as the little boy falls onto the tracks and is pulverised by 185 tonnes of metal.
My question. What responsibility do you bear for the child's death?

@Niclaou,

A lot. Christians can logically answer this question because of their belief that we are made in the image of a loving God and have intrinsic value. We are obligated to love others because "God first loved us". That worldview provides a rational explanation for the morality that I can clearly observe within myself. It is a consitent worldview... it makes sense.

But atheists claim that we are products of explosions from nothing, star supernovas, chemical accidents and DNA copying mistakes.

I am not denying that most atheists have some morality, of course they do. They are made in the image of God same as Christians. What I am asking atheists to do is to provide a consistent explanation for the presence of this morality.

Why don't atheists act consistently with the worldview they claim is true? In other words, why should one chemical accident care what another chemical accident does?

How many people would even bother to post on this thread if it was about a beaker of chemicals instead of a child that got run over by a train?

In our heart of hearts, we all know the Christian God.

8

Justification

by Sea Breeze in

the..."other sheep...are...not even justified".

- wt 1938 pg.

jw's are internationally famous for rejecting the new covenant "for the forgiveness of sins" (mt.

Sea Breeze

Thanks for the link. Looks lengthy. But, I will read all of it.

49

a pet peeve of mine

by enoughisenough in

jw
friends

putting this under "friends" because i couldn't figure out where to put it.

it is very often on here and in ex jw videos, ect that people like to undermine some of those who once we would have called friends.

there seems to be a view that window washers, plumbers, cleaners, construction workers are somehow less intelligent than those who may be college educated.

Sea Breeze

I went to university, just for the heck of it. I was already running a multimillion dollar company.

I continued to run it out of a nearly on-campus office with my secretary driving one hour each way to accommodate my craziness.

But, I checked out of the WT in Nov. 95 with the generation doctrine change and this seemed at the time like a reasonable thing to do, especially since I was single.

I threw a party once with other students who were 10 years younger and a few professors who were 10 years or so older.

During the party the dept. chair phd pulled me aside and asked me what the hell was I doing pursuing a college education since I was already making a good living.

It really made me realize that some highly educated people were just as lost as I was.

Later in the party, (after a few adult beverages), I almost had the dept. chair convinced that my dog could actually add and subtract. She found the barking show entertaining at first. But after she could not detect my cue (to stop barking at the correct number) she got more than a little put off.

But, I digress.

Point: Even highly educated people can be fooled by a barking dog.

168

Moral responsibility.

by nicolaou in

no subtlety here, it's going to be obvious where i'm going with this.

please consider the following scenario.. you're seated on a railway platform bench waiting for your train.

a high speed intercity is about to hurtle through without stopping when you see a small child running to the platforms edge!

Sea Breeze

If you are an atheist, what does it matter what one chemical accident does or does not do to another chemical accident?

One bubbles, one fizzes, one explodes… chemicals do what chemicals do right?

42

God and Unicorns

by Sea Breeze in

atheist scientists now agree that "elasmotherium sibiricu" lived with humans.

all they had to do was read their bible to know that.

job 39:9 “will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?”.

Sea Breeze

I think that suggesting dinosaur soft tissue, blood vessels & proteins encased in pourous limestone could last 80 million years is absurd. That is longer than it would take for the Rocky Mountains to erode down to sea level. But, if you keep a straight face you can make absurdity almost plausible. We all used to go to doors to try and talk people into ritually rejecting the free gift of Justification.... all with a straight face of course.

Richard Dawkins has the schtick down :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6H9XirkhZY&t=36s&ab_channel=BobEnyart

42

God and Unicorns

by Sea Breeze in

atheist scientists now agree that "elasmotherium sibiricu" lived with humans.

all they had to do was read their bible to know that.

job 39:9 “will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?”.

Sea Breeze

No, actual biological cells, blood and DNA have not been recovered, that is a lie perpetuated by unscrupulous creationist authors selling books

@ PeacefulPete - Might as well add 60 Minutes to your list of "liars".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-K7_H27Wq4&t=164s&ab_channel=BobEnyart

This stuff is everywhere regardless of the state of preservation. In one study at the British Museum of Natural History, 8 dinosaur bones were randomly selected from thousands available. 6 of the 8 dinosaur samples produced original biological material.

Tons more information and links to dinosaur discoveries here.

Scientific American ran this article a few years ago:

Dinosaur Blood and Bone Cells Seem to Survive Fossilization

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

Sea Breeze

cofty may be an example of what we are talking about here. Maybe not as happy and content but feeling very aggressive in keeping their beliefs that they are so sure they have found the truth?

People do not like to give up long held beliefs. When we all used to go to the doors, we were so sure that we had the truth. We were agressive, dismissive, and arrogantly impressed that our "good works" of going door to door set us apart from others, especially the most prominent part of the whore of Babylon - Christians who accepted the free gift of salvation like children.

Then we found out that Jesus is not our mediator, we found out that we were not justified. We found out that without being justified we cannot escape the wrath of God . In a nutshell, our beliefs were not consistent with scripture.

The..."other sheep...are...not even justified". - WT 1938 pg. 104-105

Romans 5: 1 states that we have peace with God by being justified (declared righteous) by our faith.

Romans 5: 9 states : "being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

Some people are willing to live with an inconsistent wordview, others are not. An inconsistent worldview is something I could never go back to. It is a huge red flag that something is wrong and requires more attention.

42

God and Unicorns

by Sea Breeze in

atheist scientists now agree that "elasmotherium sibiricu" lived with humans.

all they had to do was read their bible to know that.

job 39:9 “will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?”.

Sea Breeze

@ LoveUniHateExams,

For example, scientists state that gravity exists. <---- you take their word for it, don't you?

Gravity is not an untestable conclusion, but a demonstratable fact. We all have the same facts but draw sometimes completely different conclusions based on our worldview.

For instance, when dinosaur soft tissues, blood cells and DNA fragments were discovered to be quite common, "millions of years" proponents believed that there must be some unseen agent causing them to be preserved longer than it takes mountain ranges to wear down from erosion and rise up again.

Others with a different worldview believe this "saving device" is absurd and that the facts support a young earth in line with a literal biblical interpretation.

Same facts.... different conclusions. It's the way it is.

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

Sea Breeze

It is ultimately more satisfying to accept reality for what it is and find value and purpose in life.

Cofty,

That is a truth statement that assumes that YOU know what reality is. Why would you assume that? ...especially since your world view is that everyone including yourself is an accident? It makes no sense.

There is no 'TRUTH' there are only 'truths' or facts and data.

If there is no God (TRUTH) why do you put trust in facts and data that are just artifacts of explosions, unguided chaos and chemical accidents? What makes you think you can rely on them for stability (truth) ? Where does the information come from like DNA. DNA isn't just one code, but several codes. It is codes within codes and codes on top of codes like "epigenetics".

Says Dr. Georgia Purdom who has a Phd. in molecular genetics - "DNA is like discovering a coded message that means one thing when you read it in English, but if you pull out every third letter, it means something completely different in French".

How do you get this out of an unguided explosion? Please explain how unguided copying mistakes can form themselves into multilangualge codes at the same time. Do you have any other examples of codes (or any information for that matter) coming from anything other than a mind?

You seem confident that you have arrived at a place where you can put trust in accidental data and facts. But why should one chemical accident believe (or care) what another chemical accident chooses or believes if what you believe is true?

The atheist worldview is inconsistent. That is a fact. It is a demonstratable truth. Will you accept this fact and truth along with the others you have supposedly embraced?

If a person asks too many questions, they will soon find themselves outside of the WT organization. I believe the same thing can rob a person of their slumber in atheism.

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

Sea Breeze

There's no way we can cheat death. We all die. But all religion and cultures throughout time have spoken and speculated about an afterlife.

Buddah is dead. Muhammed is dead. Zeus is dead. Lao Zhu is dead. Krishna is dead. Confucious is dead. But Jesus is alive forevermore. Death couldn't hold him. That's hard to ignore.

Without that, they're all about the same. The people who follow these dead religious leaders are destined to die themselves. The almost dead following a person who is dead.

Why would anyone want to follow some dead guy?

BTTT : No way. It's always better to be in reality regardless of whether or not it is expedient, popular or not.

Sea Breeze

Posts by Sea Breeze